These are messages in response to Dave Boardman's article. Many people have indicated to the HebWeb that they feel unable to have their name used on this subject so for this thread anonymous posts and posts using a nom de plume will be permitted. Please follow the forum guidelines - Ed

From Alex Smith

Saturday, 15 April 2023

I was shocked and saddened to read Dave Boardman's piece in News today but I was pleased that he felt able to share his experiences. His comments about tolerance in Hebden Bridge are mirrored by my own experiences in trying to have polite, reasonable discussions around women's rights in the Calder Valley. 

Many women are scared to speak up about their perfectly valid concerns. They are ostracised from groups and spaces that have traditionally been welcoming to women, especially lesbians. 

Local women's groups are being badged as "hate groups" by local politicians, the same Labour politicians that deem requesting same sex intimate care for elderly or learning disabled women as bigoted. I honestly despair and wonder what had happened to the most tolerant town in England. 

From Jill F

Saturday, 15 April 2023

I just wanted to say thanks for publishing this piece. I know of at least 40 or so women personally who support Cathy and I imagine there will be many more who agree with Dave's words. It's so sad that this is happening in Calder Valley and so many people are scared to speak out so we appreciate you letting Dave have a voice.

From Anon 1

Saturday, 15 April 2023

Please do not publish my name. I am withholding this for reasons which I am sure you will now understand.

Firstly, thankyou for having the courage to publish an article on this subject. We need allies, in particular male allies, who are willing to publicly support those who are trying to defend women's rights.

I, like many women, find myself politically homeless due to the Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat parties abandonment of any commitment to single sex spaces, and thus women's rights.

The Labour Party has been a particular disappointment to me due to their dissembling on this issue at a national level and in the Calder Valley.

The local party's behaviour towards Dave Boardman has shown up the nastiness under this sanctimonious surface. It's about time the local party acknowledged the vast damage they are doing to constructive polite debate.

From Leila Lights 

Sunday, 16 April 2023

I was deeply saddened to read Dave Boardman's post about the intolerance of many in the upper valley about the women's rights issues that are dividing communities up & down the country, but also pleased that he has had the courage to speak up and highlight the vitriol and abuse that many local people have suffered in this debate. 

There has been a huge dominance of this discussion by "activists", indeed the mantra of "no debate" was engineered by Stonewall some years ago and was adopted by many individuals and local organisations when women tried to raise genuine concerns about the erosion of their rights - in sport, refuges and prisons, and even in local community groups. Women, especially lesbians have been ostracised and harassed for simply trying to have the conversations in the first place. 

The local Labour Party's response to this, and specifically in relation to Dave's concerns, has been so disappointing, particularly to those who are life long Labour voters, but who now feel they cannot vote for Labour, despite being deeply affected by the worst Government in living memory. The hashtag #labourlosingwomen has been popular on Twitter for some time now, because of these issues. 

The worst thing about all this though is now seeing that the local CLP condones and supports bullying and there appears to be no accountability. These people are our elected representatives. Where is the recourse to holding our elected reps to account? When will the Labour Party find its spine? 

From Justine Myers

Sunday, 16 April 2023

As a Feminist of 25 years and the daughter of one of the architects of free speech in broadcasting (I wont say who). I find the rambling incoherence and ill tempered rant you have published by a white, middle class, Boomer deeply troubling. 

His thoughts on the matter add nothing to the debate and simply act to divide against our trans allies and polarise the issue further. I'm disappointed in HebWeb for this. Is he a friend of the editor? He must be as someone younger or female would not have been so naive as to give this man a mouthpiece. 

I am more than familiar with this story and his rant is full of lies and inconsistencies, and his parental defence of his daughter is regrettable if not to a degree understandable. She was removed from her job over concerns over her conduct in the classroom against Trans people quite rightly and is claiming unfair dismissal. She has used right wing broadcasters to amplify her grievance, Daily Mail, GB News and their dog whistle hosts and audiences. Is that who we endorse now? The biggest bigots in the land?

To give platform to baseless accusations against our elected members of whom do much to protect against the worst of the Tory government is a step too far. Were the quotes fact checked? Were the names named consulted first? I doubt it, gutter journalism.

You have made many feminists, women and LGBTQ activists in the valley now feel that HebWeb is no longer the progressive safe space it once was. He is clearly a petty, self motivated man and I know many who will be glad to see the back of him. "Years" of perceived support for a local party I understand he has never been a member of does not give him licence to behave like a petulant child. Good riddance.

From Sue S

Sunday, 16 April 2023

As someone who rarely speaks out I wanted to say thank you to Dave Boardman and the other contributers for raising this issue. I know many people, not just women, who believe women's rights, long fought for, are being eroded. The feeling of being unable to publicly state a view which is not an 'anti' anyone view, simply a need to have my voice heard is dreadful. To Dave's daughter and everyone else who has spoken up, thank you. 

From Emma

Sunday, 16 April 2023

I wanted to thank Dave for his post. I have worked in the area of violence against women for nearly 30 years. I saw the "no debate" mantra, pushed by Stonewall, in action whilst working at Bristol University. For wanting genuine conversations about how to balance the rights, safety and dignity of different groups, I saw staff and students bullied and harassed. I returned to Hebden last year and would hate to see the vibrant and inclusive community here destroyed by that same no debate culture. We don't have to agree, but people should be able to discuss their views and opinions without being threatened.

From Mary D

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Thank you Hebweb for publishing Dave's experience and that of his daughter. It is really important that a discussion of women's rights and the way in which they have been and continue to be eroded is enabled. Policy capture by Stonewall of local authorities, health authorities , political parties and many sporting bodies have made life even more dangerous for women of whom three are murdered every week by males. Cathy's experience reflects that of many women who have lost jobs and positions, while many more daren't speak up

From Layla Flint

Sunday, 16 April 2023

As a left wing woman, who is concerned about the pernicious effects of gender ideology, I want to thank you so much for publishing Dave's letter/comment. 

I understand how tricky it must be to publish such heresy, particularly in an area such as Hebden Bridge and in times where the slur of fascism is both misunderstood and a term that is thrown around willy-nilly. 

It is true that trans people are marginalised and have a difficult time; so is true of women. No-one that I know wants pain or injustice to be inflicted upon gender incongruent people. We are all human beings and of course trans rights are human rights.

From Graham Barker

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur.  

Unfortunately, by offering vulnerable groups or individuals protection against hate crime, the law now makes it easy for someone to raise a complaint on the flimsiest of grounds. Quoting from the Crown Prosecution Service website.

Any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime if the offender has either:
- demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

Or

- been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

This is such a wide and loose definition that the scope for using the law to silence and intimidate becomes enormous. When (for example) misgendering someone can be reported as a hate crime that results in police action, what we've got is a deadly reduction of freedom of expression and open debate - which of course is exactly what the 'activists' want. That the Labour party should harbour and encourage those who believe in the repression of women beggars belief, but that seems to be their current direction of travel.

From Sean B

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Standing up to the bullies at last. Thank you Dave. Your honesty is a breath of fresh air for Hebden

From Sue H

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Thank you for publishing this hearfelt piece. The issues raised need considered and respectful debate. It is especially concerning that this can no longer happen within the labour party. Hectoring and bullying needs to stop now and everyone needs to be free to speak. We need lesbian and women only spaces - these do not preclude other options. 

From Anon2

Sunday, 16 April 2023

I just wanted to say thank you for publishing Dave Boardman's piece on the harassment he's received from some sections of the local Labour Party. 

I'm afraid I cannot post in my own name - I work for the local authority and the Councillor in Dave's piece will no doubt go for me too. 

We are living in a world where women cannot speak their truth in public. It is utterly shocking.  In my nearly 50 years of life I never thought we'd be in this place in 2023.

Thank you for the light and having integrity. I have no doubt you have been hit with complaints too.

Thank you again.  

From Anon3

Sunday, 16 April 2023

PLEASE keep my response anonymous for the very real fear of threat of reprisal, risk of libel, loss of employment, police visits etc etc. 
I wanted to say thankyou so much for publishing this excellent and courageous article by Dave. We need more help from men like Dave.

Anyone who dares to challenge the belief that men and women are two biological sexes who cannot change sex is at risk of very real & shocking retribution.

It is unbelievable that in this day and age I feel threatened if I express the view that there are only two sexes; male and female and that this is a biological fact that dates back millions of years. 

It is ridiculous that I should feel threatened for saying that I do not want men in women's private spaces, toilets, changing rooms, women's sports. and prisons, and hospital wards. There is good reason that these spaces are women only. 

It became even more ridiculous that a women only event was forcibly cancelled because it was not Trans inclusive. No it wasn't Trans inclusive, because then it would not be women only. 

It is ridiculous and offensive that my identity and my language as a woman has been reduced to wording such as 'cervix haver' 'menstruator' 'chest feeder' 'birthing person'. 

JK Rowling has said that she can paper her house with the amount of death & rape threats she has received because she has dared to say that the word that is missing here is woman.

Trans people are free to live their best lives, I am not interested. Go for it. I become interested when those lives and the rights of the Trans minority encroach on women's rights. Blokes, if you want to wear a dress, do it, enjoy it,  but please don't expect me to feel safe and comfortable if I see you in the women only sauna in a bikini.

If you feel unsafe in the men's private spaces then it's men that need to change, women do not need to accommodate these needs.

Women make up 51% of the population. Trans people make up around 1%. There has to be debate about how both of these rights can be safely and comfortably accommodated.

This used to be a tolerant and wonderfully weird town. A place I was proud to call home. Hebden, like the rest of the world, has gone crazy.

From J. Millett

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Re Dave Boardman. Shame on the treacherous local Labour Party for seeking to bully and intimidate Dave Boardman. Dave has probably raised more money for the local Labour Party than anyone else, through his lead at the Trades Club quiz nights. Your authoritarian silencing of debate may some day rebound on you, but sadly, by then, it will be too late and rebound on all of us.

From Grace

Sunday, 16 April 2023

After reading David Boardman's article, I find myself both astonished and perturbed in equal measure.

It seems bizarre that I feel I need to state that civic life is not a theatre of war. Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur.  

As a councillor, you must abide by the Nolan Principles of public life and are bound by the Public Sector Equality Duty, which states public authorities are required to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it. For any councillor, this requirement must be foremost in their mind, for this is how we build an equitable and just society for all.  

Labelling people is dangerous. Those who disregard, and even attack, someone's perspectives and opinions because their ethnicity, age, religion, beliefs, sex or sexual orientation may wish to review the true meaning of the word bigotry. If you find you cannot do this, then you must consider whether a civic role is really for you -- for, particularly at parish and town level, it requires a selflessness that you may not be able to manage.          

From Alex Adams

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Thank you for publishing this piece. The bullying and silencing of women in Hebden Bridge on this issue has got to stop. The Labour Party are the worst for this.

From Chris Dellen

Sunday, 16 April 2023

One of the many ways that activists attempt to silence women, and especially left wing women, on the subject of women's rights is to slur them as right wing.  It is true that the Daily Mail, The Times, and some of the newer TV news channels publish stories of the ways that women, like Cathy Boardman, have been harassed and discriminated against.  Women are having to turn to these platforms to find out what is going on, or to have their stories heard as most of the mainstream media have actively avoided telling the truth on these issues.

I formerly used to get my news from The Guardian and the BBC, but they were captured by Stonewall and I don't trust them any more.  I haven't changed my politics.

Of course Stonewall itself was once a great organisation that changed too... and that's not exactly another story but perhaps a different topic.

From Dave Boardman

Sunday, 16 April 2023

In answer to Justine Myers.

All I want to do is generate discussion and debate, something sadly lacking recently, and you suggesting I should not have a 'mouthpiece' is an example of the intolerance which I refer to. "Boomer"? it is a bit age-ist to think people my age should not have a voice, don't you think?

Glad you are familiar with the story. "She was removed from her job over concerns over her conduct in the classroom against Trans people" you say. Perhaps you could enlighten us on what was said in the classroom and how you disagree with it. Tell us how it is "quite right" that she should lose her job over raising questions and asking students to discuss issues in seminars, something I thought education was all about.

She has unfortunately only been interviewed by right wing media – I suggest this is because those on the so called left (is there a left media…?) don't give space to this debate.  Would you prefer people are silenced just because most of the establishment-owned media won't talk to them?

"To give platform to baseless accusations against our elected members of whom do much to protect against the worst of the Tory government is a step too far." I have been waiting to be told what the "baseless" accusations are. Maybe someone will tell me. I can stand to be corrected but to just hear words like inaccuracy, baseless, lies without explanation is not open, progressive discussion. So let's have open debate please instead. Also hands up all those who elected any of the councillors in 2023 'elections' to the Town Council.

The quotes came from emails. If you want to check them please contact Labour Leader Cllr Richard Needham I'm pretty sure he has seen them. He certainly knows who to talk to to check them.

"Were the names named consulted first?" I have apologised to one who should not have been named without permission. Others can deny the comments if they wish but I have not misquoted anyone. 

"Years of perceived support for a local party I understand he has never been a member of" … interesting. If you want to know about my membership and suspension from the Labour Party you can check it in John Pilger's  'Distant Voices'  at the start of the chapter on Witchhunts (Vintage 1994 pp102-103).

I'm accused of being "petty". I don't think it is a "petty" issue as many people are scared to speak up - perhaps because they fear they'll just get insults like being called "petty" and a liar by people who don't provide evidence of those alleged "lies".

And yes I am motivated. Because I strongly believe in education, discussion and debate I am motivated to generate discussion instead of people throwing around insults – preferably with evidence if you'd like to try that.

So, if you really want to call me a liar, please tell everyone what the "lies" or inaccuracies are. If your architect of free speech parent is still around ask them if free speech involves discussion and debate or merely insults.

...and "glad to see the back of him". Clearly that is true in some cases, but if I can get people talking rather than abusing each then I'll leave happy.

Finally, I've never been accused of being middle class before, that was a surprise. Happy to discuss and debate the class structure, but maybe that's for another thread.

From Anon4

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Thank you Dave Boardman for raising this issue about the local Hebden Bridge Labour Party and so very sad to hear of his experience with his local councillor. Thank you also to HebWeb for platforming this. 

It feels we no longer live in a democracy where we are able to discuss issues and disagree without fear of personal repercussions and victimisation within the local Labour Party. The Labour Party should stand up for people who have been treated unfairly and in the case of Dave's daughter Cathy, unfairly dismissed from her job. 

I have lived in Hebden Bridge for decades. A town famous for acceptance and tolerance.  As a life long Labour supporter and supporter of women's rights I find myself politically homeless.  Labour are throwing women under the bus. I am a member of the Women's Right's Network, an organisation that does fantastic work ensuring the necessary safe guarding of women and girls but this organisation is being portrayed as a hate organisation by our local Labour Party because we believe biological sex to be real and challenge biological males having access to women only spaces like prisons and rape crisis centres. This doesn't mean we don't want rights for trans people. Women's rights and trans rights are not mutually exclusive. How can debating this be a threat to our democracy?  

I am submitting this anonymously because the fear of personal repercussions/ loss of job/ income is very real as a local resident. I am ashamed of our local Labour Party. It's OK to disagree about things but to ignore, intimidate and silence the fears of a huge percentage of our gender critical population is appalling and feels more in line with a political regime rather than a healthy democracy. 

From Anon5

Sunday, 16 April 2023

Thank you for sharing anonymous replies to the Boardman article. This is mine.

Having voted labour for all my life I am devastated to see the sight not only of a party with a leader who cannot define what a woman is but a local party Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque .

To be clear- Women have a legal right to assemble privately and publicly as a sex class and to single sex spaces.

The fact that some people misrepresent this and want to demand that it now includes male bodied persons neither changes women's rights to do so under The Equality Act, nor addresses the wishes and needs of women. We have to listen to women.

Like it or not we must discuss issues that impact the political and private lives of the sex class women and girls without the Orwellian threat of police turning up at the house.

Public servants that cannot behave with respect for others opinions are hardly a good example of The Nolan Principals . The local Labour Party have failed to prevent the bullying of this man; they should now respond to this with a clear statement that they do not support bullying by its members on this or any issue.

This will certainly play out as we see the results in the next elections. Unless women's sex based rights are honoured and debated by the party, seats will be lost.

A shame as not a single one of would be voters has any ill will towards trans and non binary people.

It is a sad thing that many who write here do so under pseudonyms as we know all too well what the consequences could be. Inclusivity has become a word with which to beat women into submission and public silence.

Hebden has been set a challenge to do better than be complicit with silencing the voices and rights of women on this issue. Dave's reasonable letter is welcome and hopefully the start of that.

From Brandon

Monday, 17 April 2023

Respect and Solidarity to all challenging the misoygny and homophobia of the 'trans'? lobby.There is a big push back now and it is clear which side is loosing ground. Even Starmer knows he can not be mute on the subject and there is back peddling throughout the left and wider society.A woman is an adult human female . We are not compelled to believe any different . The fact people are being abused for not buying into the 'delusion' of a small minority is disturbing. Thankfully things are clearly going against the bullys and confused individuals who are peddling this misogynistic and homophobic dogma. Let women speak.

From Jez Watson

Monday, 17 April 2023

Thanks to Mr Boardman for raising this as I have been following what is happening not only here in the UK but also going on in the USA and Canada on this very matter.

It's clear that over the past few years some things have become non debatable according to the left which politically is where I identified up to a few years ago. It's very sad to see what it's now become, some view points have now become non debatable and going against the viewpoint will bring accusations of being far right or other nasty accusations, it's absolutely ridiculous.

I hope this insanity ends soon but I don't think it will, it's very sad to see in the USA that women who are standing up for women's rights being attacked physically by the trans community who are doing a great job of destroying the hard won rights of women

From Anon 6

Monday, 17 April 2023

I am shocked and saddened to read what has happened to Dave Boardman and his fight on behalf of his daughter. How on earth has it come to this where we cannot have discussion in case we are viewed as bigoted.It seems to be creeping in everywhere, not just the Calder Valley which gives the impression of being pretty tolerant to discussions, not to be slapped down, hope there is some resolve and sensibilities applied.

From Anon 7

Monday, 17 April 2023

Thank you to David and for all the other replies who write with integrity and honesty unlike the post by the person who will not be named, who has tried to ridicule and minimise others views.

The labour party is a laughing stock, people have had enough of wokeness.

I'm a lesbian, many in Hebden feel that is a dirty word, they would rather say queer, to be in line with all the ridiculous gender ideology.

A lesbian is same sex attracted, not same sex gender attracted, a man can never be a lesbian no matter how they identify. Can you believe that I and many other lesbians, have been kicked out of the lesbian Hebden bridge facebook group, for now bowing down to the gender ideology and for stating men can't be lesbians ...

As a lesbian and a female I feel very unsafe in Hebden to speak my views for fear of reprisal and harassment, it almost feels like the stasi of East Germany

A woman has a legal right to single sex spaces, to exclude men however they identify, men can never be women,yl you cannot change sex.

To have a gender critical view is part if your democratic right and its also a protected belief

A series of employment tribunal rulings since 2021 have considered whether and to what extent gender-critical beliefs count as "philosophical beliefs". Philosophical beliefs are protected from discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

Gender-critical beliefs include the belief that sex is biological and immutable, people cannot change their sex and sex is distinct from gender-identity.

The rulings also explore how protections for philosophical beliefs (under section 10 of the Act) interact in the workplace with the protections from discrimination on the basis of sex or gender reassignment under sections 7 and 11.

Read the judgement

Stand up for your well earned rights...

From Christopher Reason

Monday, 17 April 2023

How gratifying to see the flood of support for Dave and his article. It gives me hope that the madness might finally be approaching its endgame.

On several occasions I have asked our local councillor and erstwhile Labour Parliamentary candidate if he can tell me what a woman is. Each time he has dodged the question. He can get away with that on social media perhaps, but when it comes to the next election and he finds himself floundering at the hustings he's going to look mighty foolish. Like others on this thread, I find myself politically homeless. Until the madness is over, I will be spoiling my ballot paper.

The Tories, of course, will exploit this issue all the way. If we find ourselves saddled with another five years of Tory government.

From Richard Woodcock

Monday, 17 April 2023

The Stonewall no-debate position has resulted in a lose-lose outcome for everyone. I support Dave Boardman in his decent and reasonable defence of his daughter, who like many others has been attacked, and in this case sacked, simply for raising sensible questions around the issue of Trans rights. If this situation is not resolved in the local Labour Party in time for the local elections, my vote will go elsewhere.

From Anon 8

Monday, 17 April 2023

As a resident with trans family members I just want to point out that the whole, "gender critical" viewpoint amounts to trans erasure. 

I'm sorry that Dave feels that expressing views about actual denial of other humans is up for debate. It's really not. 

My partner has lived here for 35 years. I've been here for 12. Our trans family members were born and raised here. 

We are all leaving. 

We just don't feel safe. Tolerance debates among the privileged are intellectually interesting but that's just not enough. 

Actual physical safety is another issue all together. 

We have loved Hebden. We are sad to go. 

From Layla Flint

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

Dear Anon 8. I'm sorry to read that you feel that gender critical views amount to trans erasure. Could you elaborate a bit more about that?

Generally, people who have gender critical beliefs are against the sexist and restrictive definition of 'gender'. As you will know, gender now often replaces sex as a preferred term for male or female.

My sisters who are gender critical are generally open minded, kind people who simply recognise that women need and deserve their own spaces.

It's a shame that you feel it necessary to leave Hebden Bridge, but I hope that you find the tolerant utopia that you seek, elsewhere. Good luck with that.

From Anon 9

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

Well done for publishing Dave Boardman's piece. As a Lesbian I used to be happy in Hebden. Now I feel deeply disinfranchised and silenced. I drive past the sign for town and think it should read 'twinned with Stonewall' no debate capital of Yorkshire. Very Sad.

From Anon 10

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

Message for Anon 8

I'm so sorry you and your family have been treated this way.

I think you will find that there is more support for you than you think. Gender critical groups are very loud.

There is a really cool trans inclusive Hebden bridge lesbian Facebook page with 250 + members. We would like to offer you support and hopefully give you a bit of faith in the valley. 

I am a trans inclusive feminist who has worked in the women's sector for many many years. Trans rights and women's rights are intersected. 

From Graham Barker

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

I hope Anon 8 finds a few moments to ponder the irony of complaining about 'trans erasure' when the whole reason this madness is finally coming to a head is the trans lobby's attempted erasure of women.

When even the NHS cannot bring itself to use the word 'women' in information about childbirth, cervical cancer etc, we are in a grotesquely bad place. The professional middle classes seem to have surrendered without a shot being fired. It's been left up to the peasants to revolt, and about time too.

Most people are decent and tolerant and would not wish trans people any harm, but when it gets to the point where they're not content to be granted honorary membership but want to dictate how the club is run - that's a bridge too far. 

As for the rest of Anon 8's post, what can one say? The list is long of those who came to Hebden Bridge in search of something, didn't find it, and went away again. Good luck for the future, but you may struggle to find somewhere safer.

From Harvey Brewster

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

I've been made aware of the facts re the event that was cancelled that Dave Boardman talks about.

1. It was booked as a private party at a publicly funded venue that has to be inclusive because it gets a lot of public dosh. Venue crystal clear that it's inclusive. It's their venue – they set the rules under which their space is used.

2. The organisers then advertised the party publicly. No mention of a fundraiser or any organisers' names. There was a suggested 'donation at the door' on the advertising posters. It became a public event.

3. The organisers then said on social media that trans women were not welcome at the event.

4. The Equality Act 2010 gives specific requirements around excluding trans people from public events. IMO, this really wouldn't have met these requirements.

5. Excluding trans women would go against the venue's strict policy on inclusivity at public stuff.

6. Once notified by local LGBT, the venue consulted the organisers right away & then took the decision to cancel – within their rights IMO as both sides had signed a contract and contracts are void if one party doesn't stick to the agreed terms.

7. Many days after the cancellation, it emerged in public that this was a fundraiser.

8. Calderdale officers have told Dave Boardman this wasn't even a council matter. So I'm not sure why he is going on about councillors.

From Richard Needham

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

The post of Dave Boardman and those who write in support deserve a response.

The first obvious irony is this disagreement was triggered by an event arranged to support his daughter's appeal against dismissal. She has the right to be treated fairly and to challenge that decision. But we now see those principles of fairness and being treated with respect, denied to the Councillor in this situation – not knowing all the circumstances it is assumed they should be deselected and shame on us for not doing it. Let's look at the facts.

When the Councillor contacted the venue hosting this event, it was not advertised as a fundraiser to support someone facing an industrial tribunal, so nor could they know it was for someone related to their constituents, a very unfortunate coincidence – the event, after all, was in another town. The Councillor did not know that this involved a close relative of constituents – had they done so they would have handled things differently.

Also, the Councillor was not acting as a Councillor, but acting privately doing what they had done before - advocating for the trans community. They and others contacted the venue because they were concerned that trans people were clearly excluded from an event.

What has the consequence been though for the Councillor? Well, they have been subject to a pretty relentless and very distressing attacks on social media, of which this is an example - with Dave even inviting people to question Councillors to find out which of their colleagues this is. Such an approach, of course encourages hate and a witch hunt, undermining the very spirit of tolerance that Dave says the Valley is losing.

He is right Sarah Courtney and I met him. Our intention was to try and build bridges locally between parties to start a conversation. A conversation that would not be conducted through microphones or on social media. It would be about listening to understand, rather than listening to reply so you can score points. Sadly that attempt of ours failed not through want of trying.

Finally, much is made of Dave's contribution to the Labour Party locally and he is portrayed as victim of an ungrateful Party. I too enjoyed the quiz and curry sessions, but what is not said here is that he did receive payment for this work. Even if he hadn't taken a penny, that would not justify the continual hounding of a Councillor who did not cause his daughter to lose her job and had no intention of sabotaging a fund raiser for her industrial tribunal.  

Cllr. Richard Needham
Leader of the Labour Group
Hebden Royd Town Council

From Anon 11

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

Please publish this from Anon as I am fairly well known and don't want to receive the sort of frightening reactions that others have received for putting forward an argument.

Thank you Dave for having the courage to raise these issues when so many of us feel silenced and afraid in our own community for saying the same things. I'm a local woman and a life-long lesbian feminist and have stood up for the rights of oppressed people for over 50 years, including women, lesbians, gay men and trans people.

I think there is a serious misrepresentation being deliberately pushed by certain members of what I had believed was my community, which is that to want to meet, socialise and discuss in women only space automatically means that we are trans phobic.

How wrong, insulting ,and lacking in awareness this is.

In the past, we would debate, often passionately, what the overarching cause of oppression was - identified as the system we call patriarchy - that oppresses people who are different. As women we need to be able to discuss some of these issues in a women only environment where we are not afraid of repercussions or attack.

As lesbians some of us like to hang out with other women and share common social events some of the time.Straight women enjoy this too, because we create safe space to relax in away from the imposition of male gaze, male ego or violence.

This is not to say in any sense that trans women are necessarily oppressive but they might be, in ways that trans men rarely are, because culturally most were brought up as female. Sometimes just having a man around changes the atmosphere and limits what we feel comfortable talking about.

We all are brought up in a cultural milieu of male oppression, where men shout down women, speak louder, are disrespectful and take up too much space and simply do not have the life experiences that women have of being oppressed as a woman. Trans women who were brought up in this culture still have these trappings of male entitlement and often seem not to be aware of it.

So it's important that women can have access to women only space some of the time, to have a break from dealing with the everyday oppression we face. Sex is a legally protected characteristic, as is gender reassignment. If I can support the rights of trans people to be themselves, to meet with each other and to be referred to as trans women why can't they respect my right to meet with other biological women on the rare occasions we organise to do this?

From Harvey Brewster

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

I hope Anon 11 will think again about her comments after reading my own post above. 

She says 'So it's important that women can have access to women only space some of the time, to have a break from dealing with the everyday oppression we face. Sex is a legally protected characteristic, as is gender reassignment. If I can support the rights of trans people to be themselves, to meet with each other and to be referred to as trans women why can't they respect my right to meet with other biological women on the rare occasions we organise to do this?'

To answer her question: Women can meet together in private however they like and think/say whatever they like – they can make sweeping generalisations about men to their heart's content. 

But the law is that public events at venues can't deny entry to punters on the generalised basis of stuff like sex, race/ethnicity, sexuality or because they are trans. 

That's why pubs, football grounds and host of other places which some of us men might want women-free can't exclude women anymore. Does Anon 11 think we should go back to that? I know plenty of men who'd love it. 

The event Dave Boardman talks about was clearly public. If those women had wanted to meet they could've kept it a private party – as they'd booked it.  

From Anon 12

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

I should like to add my heartfelt support to Dave Boardman and of course, his daughter, who, has been dismissed from her teaching post?  I find this utterly appalling.  I do hope she get's support from her union?!

Absurd situation.  Any discussion around women's rights is legit, not bigotry.  I have fought for mine for over 60yrs!  I continue to do so. Women are entitled to 'women' only, spaces, if this is what they want.

And as for the Labout Party's view on any of this - I have little idea but, I have no time for this ridiculous and deplorable state of affairs, whereby, women or others, seem to be wrong - and castigated for wanting this.

This whole conversation around 'rights' has lost it's meaning.  We can be inclusive and at the same time, respect others.  

I will not be cowered by this nonsense.

Very sad indeed.

From Mary Purtell

Tuesday, 18 April 2023

Thank you to Dave Boardman for speaking so openly about what he and his daughter have been going through, and what a shocking state of affairs that anyone could be sacked for this reason and in this way. I'm sure she will win her case, but the lengthily/costly legal process is the punishment isn't it? 

It reveals a lot about the damaging infiltration of the local Labour Party by ideologues, with deeply authoritarian instincts (and a healthy dose of misogyny to boot).  But just how many of them are there in the local party? I certainly know many members in the Calder Valley who do not agree with the 'party line' but are too afraid to say so. We can see by the number of anonymous replies to this thread, that many people don't feel safe speaking publicly about this issue.

I think it's shameful what's happened to a once thriving lesbian community in the Uoper Valley. Unable to apply for grants for community projects and groups unless inclusive of anyone who 'identifies as a woman'. Why? it's well understood that lesbians are same-sex attracted females. If anyone can identify into the category, it ceases to be a category. What on earth did lesbians fight for equality for? Instead in Hebden, everything has to be about queer and trans (which some women don't mind, but many do). 

We all know that for many middle-class Gen Z people, (and a few of their older allies, who really should know better), gender identity ideology is their liberation narrative. And why wouldn't it be, when they've been groomed online, at schools and at universities to think and feel this way? I've considered the issues very deeply, and I reject many of the premises of this ideology. I don't believe humans have a gender identity, but in a democracy, I accept that others do believe that. I know as a woman that the material reality of being a woman really does matter - for lesbian communities,  in sporting competitions, and for privacy safety and dignity in a number of settings. 

The overreach of this ideology is ludicrous and sinister in equal measure. Imagine calling a pregnant woman  a birthing person, or being a male who iden tifies as non-binary and then feels entitled to join a lesbian dating app, or going into a female only sauna space and find a bloke in a costume in there (and yes this has happened at Tod Sports Centre).

I'm interested in how we can find creative ways forward in terms of how trans people can be fully included in public life, but we must not undermine the definition and importance of biological sex, and further threaten the sanctity of single sex spaces. Women want and need them - and these intimidatory tactics by a small bunch of activists, to silence women and men who speak out about this, needs to be vigorously challenged. 

Mary Purtell

From Freddie B

Wednesday, 19 April 2023

The Labour councillors round here have procrastinated for years. They seem more keen on going on breakfast television so they can record themselves. How narcissistic.

They have given us appalling roads throughout Calderdale (worst in living memory), buildings constructed next to active play grounds (their supposed objections have gone very quiet), lip service paid to parents' concerns or plainly ignored, photo opportunities in deprived areas with beaming smiles. What an odd bunch they are. 

You know what to do on May the fourth!

I'm hoping we can start to have some people with integrity standing in the next elections. Here's hoping!

From Jenny Shepherd

Wednesday, 19 April 2023

I'm commenting in response to remarks in this thread about the need to uphold Nolan standards of integrity in public life. 

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque id deserunt et quisquam nesciunt et eos mollitia aspernatur. Sint veniam voluptatum quibusdam itaque suscipit provident veritatis rem quod laudantium laborum a. Asperiores suscipit fugiat autem eum quaerat.

Why? Maybe because Hebden Royd Town Council has become completely undemocratic - like the UK government under former Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who was emboldened by his big Parliamentary majority to break many rules and codes of public office until finally he became an electoral liability to the Tory Party.

Unlike the Johnson government though, the local Labour Party have no electoral curbs on their actions, because Labour can and do run Hebden Royd Town Council on a totally unelected basis.  

As Hebweb has pointed out, Labour have retained control of the Town Council without a vote being cast. The elections are on 4th May, but Labour are already assured of 13 of the 18 seats of the Town Council. This is because five of the six wards had only three candidates,  so all three have been appointed without the support of a single member of the public. 

This means we the public are unable to kick out elected representatives, because they're not even elected in the first place. We have no control over them. 

The scale may be small, but the damage to democracy and public life in Hebden Royd and the Upper Calder Valley is huge.

From The councillor

Thursday, 20 April 2023

I am the councillor whose private life has become the subject of public discussion as a result of Mr Boardman's latest article together with his previous thirteen public interventions complaining about me since 30 January this year. 

Jenny Shepherd rightly acknowledges what Cllr Richard Needham has already stated - that the actions I took, which Mr Boardman complains about, were in taken a purely personal capacity. 

Cllr Needham and Harvey Brewster have both set out on this thread accurate details of exactly what I did. 

Jenny suggests that those actions may constitute a breach of the Nolan Principles and that the Labour Party should in some way sanction me as I'm not a fit person to hold public office.

Jenny hasn't set out anywhere what Nolan Principles she feels I may have breached and why. The public availability of the facts will, I hope, help her to be more specific and perhaps HebWeb could give her that opportunity. 

I have written to Jenny privately (I don't feel these discussions are best held on social media) and offered to provide her with whatever assurances or evidence she might need - but she has not yet replied. 

For clarity, the Nolan Principles are around: selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership. 

Finally, Jenny refers to a 'law firm' in her comments. The comments are on the Grant Thornton website, which is a major international accounting and corporate services company, not a law firm. 

From Emily Stead

Thursday, 20 April 2023

I write on behalf of the women of Calderdale Women's Rights Network. 

We'd like to offer to meet with Councillor Needham and his colleagues to try and find some common ground and try to find a constructive way forward where clashes of rights of different groups of people can be discussed and managed with compassion. 

If this valley is a valley of tolerance then it must be demonstrated by the organisations and people that govern and represent us.

To date, we have offered to meet with all political parties to try to encourage dialogue and foster some better relations. To date, everyone apart from Labour have responded to our invitation. 

I would encourage everyone here who is a representative of the residents to consider this request in good faith and respond accordingly. 

From Ruth Walker-Cotton

Friday, 21 April 2023

Dave Boardman says that the safe haven of Hebden Bridge no longer exists. Pause for a moment to realise that for trans people there is no safe haven, which contributes towards such high rates of suicide and mental health problems, especially for trans young people.

As a bisexual woman, happily married for over 20 years to a lesbian woman, I can see so many slurs or put downs being said about trans people that have previously been said about us (not safe to be around your kids, get on with your lives privately but don't demand equal rights etc).

I am convinced that an increase in rights for others, who are often vulnerable, does not mean a decrease in my rights.

I want Hebden Bridge to be a safe haven for everyone, and that includes the trans community. 

From Emma Walker-Cotton

Friday, 21 April 2023

I have no knowledge about this issue and am not commenting on this. But this paragraph is really problematic for me.

"I believe in full clothing rights and it is appalling if a man in a frock feels uncomfortable in public spaces. I have stood next to men who lift up their skirts to use the urinal – and good for them."

This isn't who trans women are. The trans community are people who realise they are born into the wrong gender. They are not men in frocks. 8% of trans teenagers attempt to take their own lives as they work out how to move forward and we need to be standing with them side by side.

I'm a lesbian who firmly believes there is no L without the T and we need to be allies to this group who are being increasingly excluded and isolated from our society.

From Viv Boardman

Friday, 21 April 2023

I am Cathy Boardman's mum, and would obviously like to see her to have a favourable outcome from her tribunal, when it happens.

I agree with the comments made that we should be ablevto have an open and civilised discussion. I want girls and women's safety and dignity to be resected, and for trans people to have rights that can co-exist.

Maybe the discussions could take in the effect that easier, and ever-younger, access to porn, has on girls, and the same with explicit photos they are pressured into sending. It must have a negative effect on boys, too.

From Christian Thompson

Friday, 21 April 2023

Thank you for your article, Dave. It is good to see these things open to debate. One should always be intellectually suspicious about claims of a subject area being settled or not otherwise open to debate. It is also not a good sign when people feel they need to comment anonymously.

There are some interesting points here that illustrate the different angles that people are coming from. It may be difficult to argue with points about legislation and contract law but, in my view, Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

Yes, there may be some things that we are going to feel less tolerance for than others - but it was a women only disco, not a Klan rally. People need to ask themselves whether they are becoming the hateful ones via their actions in their perceived battle against hatred (to paraphrase Friedrich Neitzsche). So, because not everyone was invited, Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

Yes, it may be that the Equality act was accurately interpreted and the venue had no other choice under its policy, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right decision. Legislation was used as a justification for a lot of exclusionary nonsense under covid as well - it didn't necessarily make it lawful or right.

We all need to co-exist with our differing characteristics and beliefs - finding common ground, equilibrium and compromise.

From The councillor

Saturday, 22 April 2023

Dear Christian Thompson

I checked my moral compass and it works just fine, thanks.

I informed a venue of the fact that it appeared to be hosting an event that probably broke anti-discrimination law and its own policies (in place because it gets public funding and because they like it that way). The cancellation was the venue's decision and I did not suggest it to them. I have the emails. 

It's an interesting take on the situation to suggest that, in seeking to defend the hard-won legal rights of a community not to be discriminated against, I somehow lack a moral compass. I will think about that, but it seems a non-sequitur to be honest.

From Alex Smith

Saturday, 22 April 2023

I think Christian's post above is spot on and goes back to Dave Boardman's point about tolerance. Would an event for trans people have been shut down because people who don't identify as trans were not allowed? Would Andy's Man Club be hit by complaints because they don't allow women into their groups? 

No. We, as a society, show these groups tolerance and identify that sometimes certain groups of people sometimes need a space of their own.

It's fascinating why it's just women that are met by intolerant attitudes that insist the opposite sex have to be present to be "inclusive". Surely if someone's world view or politics are not your cup of tea the best strategy is to live and let live, not shut down their parties. 

From Victoria Uttley

Saturday, 22 April 2023

I'm reading the reply's to Dave's question 'What happened to Happy Valley' Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

From Anon 13

Saturday, 22 April 2023

Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque  

Councillors have to listen and respond to constituents even when their views differ from their constituent.

The legislation relating  to hate crimes is poorly constructed. It's use should be carefully considered. A disagreement surely cannot meet the criteria of a hate crime. Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

From Christian Thompson

Saturday, 22 April 2023

Dear The Councillor,

Though I was trying to keep my point general, I did use your phraseology whilst alluding to a theoretical situation similar to the one in which you were involved. But since you've owned it, here goes.

I didn't say you lacked a moral compass, I suggested that you checked it. You did and you found it to be fine, so that's between you and your conscience - but I can't help thinking that it's Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

You seem to be distancing yourself from your actions by pointing out that you merely contacted the venue and let their interpretation of the law do the rest - yet you congratulate yourself for seeking to defend hard won rights. So you clearly had a motivation, with an outcome in mind, when you contacted the venue.

If you were an activist in Latin America, Iraq or Somalia campaigning for legal protections and Justice for LGBTQ+ communities, I would be cheering you on wholeheartedly - Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque

From Anon 14

Saturday, 22 April 2023

Thank you so much for publishing Dave's post. I am so sorry that this has happened to Dave, and his family, and I am saddened that they feel they must leave the area, but I understand why.

In the last couple of years it has become apparent that Gender Ideology has become something of a pseudoscientific 'new religion' with vast overreach, pushed into all our and our children's lives via schools and institutions (including the police) by the once-great but now utterly lost Stonewall. It is my belief that there will be generation of children and very vulnerable people who are profoundly and irrevocably damaged (both physically and mentally) because of the lies told to them in the name of this sexist, homophobic, regressive ideology.

I am horrified that women's rights and the most basic safeguarding principles are now deemed 'transphobic' by this intolerant movement, and that if we believe that females should have the right to name themselves, to speak of their own lived experience, to organise in female-only groups, to have female-only sports, prisons, hospital wards, refuges, we will be labeled 'bigots' (or far worse). 

I believe that other protected groups eg. trans people, disabled people, people of ethnic minorities, religious people, should also have the right to their own groups, spaces etc - and yet this right is no longer afforded to women. I wonder if those who campaigned against Dave's daughter Cathy's single-sex party taking place have ever campaigned against or questioned the validity and worth of Andy's Man Club (a group for men doing fantastic work)? I doubt it - it is only women seeking single-sex spaces who are the target of this movement. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling and proof to me of gender ideology's inherent sexism and misogyny.

Single-sex services are essential for the privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls (as well as other protected groups). 98% of all convicted sex offenders are male, regardless of gender identity. We lock our car doors not because we believe all people to be car thieves, but because a small proportion of people are criminals. The same goes for single sex services. Women need them - not because all men are violent / sex offenders - but because males are unfortunately statistically more of a danger to women than other females (again, regardless of their 'gender identity'). These are facts, even if they're not 'kind'. Most sensible people know and agree with this.

Unfortunately the Labour Party now has a number of extremely vocal pro-gender ideology activists within the party, and who are currently dominating discourse due to their extreme intolerance and aggressive tactics (Et odio earum quos vero illo fugit velit quasi ut distinctio numquam accusamus quidem quia. Error et sint non quidem repellat itaque ). This scares others from speaking out - a 'chilling effect'. I myself was a lifelong Labour voter and a member until recently. However, Labour's stance on this issue and its refusal to support Rosie Duffield and her views on women's rights, caused me to resign my membership.

What has happened to Dave Boardman, his daughter Cathy (and her fundraiser) and the local party's inability to take a stand against this sort of intolerance and bullying - from someone in public office - makes me despair. I no longer recognise the party I always voted for, and I now find myself politically homeless, at a time when I truly wish I didn't feel conflicted about giving Labour my vote, as I believe we desperately need to vote the current Conservative government out of power.  

Thank you Dave Boardman, for standing up and speaking out. Many of us are rooting for you and your family, and thank you Hebweb for publishing his, and others' (whatever their opinions) voices.

This thread has seen an interesting, articulate, sometimes passionate, debate about issues very relevant to our community. Not wishing it to go on and on, perhaps repeating the same points, the HebWeb is now closing the discussion on this particular thread - Ed (Sunday, 23 April 2023