From Jenny B

Wednesday, 8 June 2011

I totally agree. Dreamed up no doubt by someone who likes to think Hebden is 'so funky' and is just a little bit up their own a**e too.
Personally I wasn't keen on the Town of great little shops' sign either.
We used to be Hebden Bridge - The Pennine Centre, but maybe that wasn't funky enough.

From Andrew Hall

Wednesday, 8 June 2011

Me too! Or this being Hebden Bridge, perhaps I should say 'Moi Aussi!'.

99% of residents just get on with their lives, go for the odd walk, have a few beers in the pub, or do a bit of gardening.

Others - and sadly they seem to be over-represented on Hebweb - seem to be unhealthily obsessed with Hebden Bridge The Image, rather than Hebden Bridge The Place. For example, such people turn a quite innocent question about what it's like to live in Hebden Bridge into a diatribe about offcumdens and locals.

'That Was So Hebden Bridge' epitomises everything wrong and embarrassing about the place. But don't let it worry you! Just get on with your lives and laugh at the folly of these pompous and pretentious people.

Pretentious?? Moi??!!

From Myra James

Wednesday, 8 June 2011

I don't think I agree with previous comments on those signs. It's something I confess I find myself saying from time to time. Perhaps it is self-regarding, and maybe a bit pompous, but I see also an element of gentle self-mockery. We know we can be excessively proud of this place - but why not? - after all it's so funky, and so-o-o Hebden Bridge!

From Graham Barker

Thursday, 9 June 2011

It is pretty pukey, on at least two counts. It's a lazy steal from a fairly recent supermarket advertising campaign (can't remember which one, so it obviously did a great job). And if you take it literally and ask the logical question: 'What was?', it's impossible to know what the answer is supposed to be.

From Phil M

Thursday, 9 June 2011

Well said Myra :-),

Much as people don't want to admit it and love to combat it, Hebden is a very special place that the people of West Yorkshire and beyond come and enjoy, having an identity however much people don't agree with it (when do you ever find a place where everyone does?) is a great thing and our biggest local industry is based upon it..

From Rev Tony Buglass

Thursday, 9 June 2011

I just think they're funny. And folk who don't get the joke are even funnier.

Isn't there something something about this conversation which is just 'so Hebden Bridge'?

From Lizzie D

Thursday, 9 June 2011

Maybe those who like to think we are all funky, a little bit self-deprecating and so-o -o Hebden Bridge, should have considered whether we all wanted to be labelled as such before they put the signs up. I have heard so many rude comments about these signs from locals and visitors. who wonder just who these So-o-o Hebden Bridgers think they are!

From Mike Barrett

Thursday, 9 June 2011

Hello, I must own up to being responsible for the 'so Hebden Bridge' signs. I wanted to contrast the typeface derived from the 17th century plaques on the packhorse bridge with something amusingly modern and vernacular. I wonder if "ey-up, that were 'ebden Bridge' might have been more suitable? Anyway I am pleased they are still provoking lively discussion.

From Sutti H

Thursday, 9 June 2011

I have travelled around the country for many years and when asked where I came from I was used to a laugh. What a weird place I've been told, full of strange people. Nice little shops full of expensive things nobody really wants. They are the nice printable replies. It usually breaks the ice though.

So I do understand the signs, not sure what I think about them lol.

From Joel B

Thursday, 9 June 2011

I actually find myself saying "that's so Hebden" when certain activities are taking place in the town, not in a bad way !! So maybe it does reflect what people think. And I'm a "local", not an "offcumden" :)

I usually get a few crazed responses when I post on here, so if I don't mind it then there's hope for everyone eh !!

From Lizzie D

Thursday, 9 June 2011

I actually like the 'ey up its hebden' idea or ey up that was Hebden ; )
But love them or hate them they sure do provoke a debate.
Given the choice - What would you have?

From Andrew Hs

Thursday, 9 June 2011

Nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that only one of the original two signs is left standing. The one at the Todmorden end of town was knocked down in a road traffic accident some time ago now.

Whether you agree with the phrasing or not I think it is a real shame that the sign has not been replaced.

From Graham Barker

Thursday, 9 June 2011

Whenever I see those town boundary signs that politely welcome careful drivers, I yearn to see one that says 'Don't Drive Like A Pillock'. And a speed warning sign that instead of flashing 'Slow Down', flashes 'We Know Where You Live'. Todmorden might be just the place to try these out.

From Susan Press

Friday, 10 June 2011

To be honest it makes me cringe. I agree with others it is self-regarding, pompous, and embarrassing. Manchester used to have a sign saying it was a "nuclear-free zone." That I did like.

From Jon Morris

Friday, 10 June 2011

I'm with Rev Buglass: the sign and the fact we are all discussing it is 'so Hebden Bridge'.

I was also amused by the old 'Manchester, A Nuclear Free Zone' signs- presumably the electricity from Wylfa and Heysham was diverted elsewhere on the grid.

From Jonathan Timbers

Friday, 10 June 2011

So, Mike, it was your idea, was it? So did you pay for them or did I and other taxpayers?

Can I have my money back, please?

From Paul Clarke

Saturday, 11 June 2011

There seems to be a bit missing on the signs - blooming vandals - shouldn't it read in full:

'That was so Hebden Bridge...up its own arse.

From Rev Tony Buglass

Saturday, 11 June 2011

So, what emerges from this thread is that for some people certain slogans are acceptable, for others the same slogans are self-regarding posturing. The Manchester nuclear-free zone slogan falls precisely into that category - it was a statement of intent and values, but essentially false: Manchester was supplied by exactly the same proportion of nuclear-generated power as the rest of the country, and spent exactly the same proportion of its tax revenue on a nuclear strike force (I won't call it a deterrent) as the rest of the country. The slogan said something which was applauded by many, ignored by most, and derided by many.

"So Hebden Bridge" says something about the way the town sees itself. It is a statement of intent and values. We all know that is not an accurate description of the reality. The self-image of the town as the place where all are accepted is simply not true - quite apart from recent comments about 'offcumdens' there was a thread in this forum a year or so back arising from the fact that a visitor to the town suffered racial abuse, there have been lengthy discussions about the drugs problems of the community (part of the community? one of the communities?), and the discussions in this forum range from informed and passionate comment through friendly humour to what I can only call ignorant bitchiness. No names, no pack drill.

What is 'so Hebden Bridge' is the fact that such a conversation can take place here, and that some of us find the signs amusing, and others bit cheesy, and others hate them. But the conversation is happening, and all points of view can be expressed. I hope that is 'so Hebden Bridge.'

From Susan Press

Monday, 13 June 2011

Tony, with respect Manchester City Council was the first in the UK to start the nuclear-free-zone movement which continues today.

The Labour council at the time (as it still overwhelmingly is) vehemently opposed Trident, Cruise missiles and the proliferation of the arms race under Reagan and Thatcher.

It was not just posturing.

Hebden Royd is a member of the Mayors For Peace movement which continues to highlight the madness of the nuclear industry and the obscenity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I never found the sign amusing. I respected what it stood for. The sign in question on the edge of town is a very different kettle of fish. It doesn't give me sleepless nights. But in these times of harsh attacks on the working people of this country I find it more than a tad complacent.

From Andy M

Monday, 13 June 2011

As ever Tony, a healthy dose of common sense and a balanced, unjudgemental commentary.

Thats was so Reverend Buglass!

From Lizzie D

Tuesday, 14 June 2011

"....the discussions in this forum range from informed and passionate comment through friendly humour to what I can only call ignorant bitchiness"

Can't really see 'the balanced unjudgemental commentary' in that quote (as referred to by AndyM ).

What I think comes across in many of these new debates, is that comments are not based on ignorance or bitchiness, or even jealousy as suggested by some. But it is that this labelling of the town/community as being 'so Hebden Bridge' is actually one which people are quite genuinely fed up with.

Whether Mike came up with this slogan on his own or not, it is such an intensely annoying one. I love the design of the signs themselves but can't see this need to over-emphasise our town's perceived quirkiness all of the time.

Other towns have similar communities to ours (yes the displaced locals issue). But nowhere is there this sense of offcumdems/migrants/settlers, call them what you wish, emphasising and almost revelling in this rebelliousness and non-conformity that they have created in their new hometown. Its all a bit desperate. A sort of Oh dear "Should this quirkiness/ funkiness/ laid back attitude not be shoved in the face of locals and visitors alike we might just disappear back into obscurity". And then no one will admire our ability to laugh at ourselves (or mock our desire to be viewed as being soooooooooo'up our own ar*es).

From Rev Tony Buglass

Tuesday, 14 June 2011

Susan, I never said it was posturing. I said it was an expression of intent and values, which others might define as self-regarding posturing. The facts of the matter are as I said: whatever the values and ideology of the City Council, the community was and is just as involved in the nuclear status quo of this country as anyone else. That is neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the intent of the signs, simply stating a fact: putting up signs and opposing Trident has made neither nuclear weapons nor nuclear power go away.

As to the "So Hebden Bridge" signs - OK, so you don't like them. Fine. Nevertheless, they are there (until someone takes out the other one after a few pints too many before getting behind the wheel) and they have stimulated (provoked?) at least this animated discussion. Can't be bad.

(Oh, and - thanks, Andy! I like that one.)

From Jason Elliott

Tuesday, 14 June 2011

How about "That were 'Ebden Bridge. Well funky, innit." ?

From Rev Tony Buglass

Tuesday, 14 June 2011

Lizzie, if you read what I actually wrote, it referred to "a range" of comments in the discussions in this forum. I wasn't commenting on this thread alone, but on the general run of conversation in the forum. And I stick by my comments - I won't go into detail, but there have been discussions relating to issues and situations which I know about but am not at liberty to discuss in a public forum, and some of the comments have been both ignorant and bitchiness; they were both wrong in what they said and unnecessarily hurtful in the way they said it Not all, but some.

Of course I understand how some folk are profoundly irritated by the signs and this discussion almost certainly rubs them up the wrong way. My point is that there has always been a "so Hebden Bridge" image, long before the signs. It doesn't match the reality. I suspect the discussions in this forum do illustrate a great deal of what it means to be Hebden Bridge, in all its diversity. But even that is not the whole picture, because a lot of the folk in this community never go near Hebweb. Fair enough - we have a chorus of voices, not necessarily singing from the same hymn-sheet, but occasionally singing in the same key.

From Lizzie D

Tuesday, 14 June 2011

Tony - Despite your stance about the nature of the comments in other threads, I do find that the majority of contributors here are more likely to be condescending, which of course can be interpreted as ignorant or bitchy as you wish. However, I wouldn't choose to use those expressions in a public forum, on the basis that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that many opinons are based on a lack of knowledge of the facts. I also bear in mind that this is not always the contributors fault, sometimes facts are kept confidential so that people make judgements without being fully informed. I am sure that in your day job you will see this all of the time.

I would say though, that it is a fact that Hebden Bridge has not always been seen as so quirky.

I agree that the Hebweb is a minority voice but with t'internet being accessible to more and more people such debates can perhaps start to reflect more balanced views.

Hebweb has in my opinion, for too long been the domain of the new locals, and as you may know it took me a long while to feel able and have the confidence to contribute. I think this tendency to accuse contributors of being ignorant and bitchy might just put folk off.

Interestingly, today's Courier announced that they will shortly be presenting a summer feature on the diverse nature of 'funky' Hebden Bridge. I just can't wait!

From Em F

Wednesday, 15 June 2011

Jason, I like your version:

"That were 'Ebden Bridge. Well funky, innit." ?

That sums it up, because...

Hebden Bridge IS funky, quirky, alternative. Maybe, a long time ago, it wasn't... but now it is. Like Brighton, Glastonbury and Totnes... but unique, because it's also Northern.

Funky-Yorkshire; a strange mix but I like it a lot (a bit like some of those weird flavours they do in the Milk Bar... speaking of which, what's that about? An American-vintage-style Milk Bar in a Yorkshire hippy village..?).

I don't mind the signs. Don't think they're great either. But they are 'so Hebden Bridge'.

From Cllr Matthew Talbot

Wednesday, 15 June 2011

As I newly elected Town Councillor, I've been following recent threads on this forum with interest.

It's clear that for many reasons, not least the cost of housing, many people have been left behind by recent developments in the town.

Let's see if there's anything we can do about it. May I, through the forum, ask people with concerns to contact me?

From Rev Tony Buglass

Wednesday, 15 June 2011

"New locals"? Variation on a theme of 'offcumdens'? I think I like it -unless it begins to sound like 'victorious invaders'...

"I think this tendency to accuse contributors of being ignorant and bitchy might just put folk off."

Does one comment constitute a tendency? Especially when it was made as a very small part of a more wide-ranging comment? As I said before, please read what I actually said, not what you think I said. I enjoy Hebweb. I enjoy Hebden Bridge. I like the way both have room for everyone, even if there is a little jostling. I like the passion and commitment I read here, and I'm glad you did pluck up the courage to join in. Don't stop.

From Ian M

Thursday, 16 June 2011

I'm sorry, but I find those signs (and all the statements that Hebden is quirky and alternative, when it is anything but) exactly like the person who introduces themselves as being a bit crazy and mad. Within minutes you find that the only person they are convincing is themselves

From Em F

Thursday, 16 June 2011

Reasons I think 'funky', 'quirky', 'alternative' do fit: the many colourful houseboats on the canal, the buskers in the square, the lack of chainstores, the abundance of arty-crafty shops and projects, abundance of organic shops (relative to town size), HB being a Transition Town, big gay/lesbian population, lots of non-mainstream music at our nationally renowned venue The Trades Club, having our own Alternative Technology Centre, lots of flea-and-farmers' markets... I could go on... but I'm interested to know how come Ian thinks HB is not alternative?

I thought it'd be fairly non-controversial to say - it's not like most Yorkshire towns of its size, is it?

From Ian M

Thursday, 16 June 2011

All those things and more can be found in numerous towns and cities throughout the country. Haworth, Otley, Skipton, York to name a few. The shops are the same as in any other tourist trap, full of over priced trinkets and tat that serve no real use to anyone. Hebden bridge has become an over commercialised victim of its own hype. It claims to be alternative, quirky and hippy while at the same time clamouring to sell itself to the tourist pound. If alternative and quirky is traffic blocked roads, an over abundance of charity shops and cafes and massively overpriced houses then you are welcome to it

From Em F

Thursday, 16 June 2011

Yes, I quite like a town with lots of cafes and charity shops. I like a town with practical shops selling newspapers and groceries and I like having a knitting/sewing shop, a couple of bookshops and a diy/ironmongers. I like looking at the pretty things in the windows of some of the handmade-goods and clothes shops too, even if I don't need them and can't afford them.

The point about the 'quirky' shops is precisely that they are not the same as everywhere else. Why criticise people for using their creativity to make or source or grow or bake something unique or wholesome or beautiful and then offering it for sale? I don't get it.

While I like Otley, Skipton and Haworth it's not true to say they have all the 'alternative/funky' things that Hebden does. They are not Transition Towns and don't have Alt-Tech centres, I'm pretty sure they don't all have music venues of the Trades' standard or gay-owned wine-bars, a lack of chainstores, or an abundance of house-boats either... (York is so much bigger it's not really comparable.)

And they don't have signs saying 'That was so... Otley/Skipton/Haworth' either ;)

From Zilla Brown

Thursday, 16 June 2011

Why is it so essential that Hebden be labelled with buzz words like funky/ quirky/ alternative/ transition town/ lesbian capital /alt tech / etc etc and etc ad nauseum, doesn't it suffice that Hebden is known as a good place to live in a beautiful area?

I can't help but feel that there is an ulterior motive to all this and the place is being talked up in a smug sort of way, "look where I live its better than where you live,we've got all this and an expensive house too in this funky/ quirky etc etc etc town".

Its like some mad marketing fantasy designed to hype up personal identity, plus house prices and anything else that's on sale,as if just being from or bought from here makes it any different and warrants higher prices. The sign "that was so hebden bridge "is meaningless claptrap, a waste of money and a prime example of whats going wrong with the town.

From Em F

Friday, 17 June 2011

I'm not 'labelling' Hebden a Transition Town with an Alt-Tech centre, a good music venue and a sizable gay population with a lot of local artists etc, I'm just describing what I see. As well as pointing out that it is more than that too - it also has a proper 'Yorkshire' side and practical as well as touristy shops.

Hebden has developed this way organically, without anyone having a grand plan. I don't think it is 'better' than anywhere else, I just think it has a distinct identity and I like it. I don't expect everyone to like it... but nor do I think it's smug to like the place I live in, it's just natural... if I didn't like it, I wouldn't be here. (I always feel I have to say at this point that - no, I don't own a house.)

Sorry, this has got off track (it was supposed to be about the signs, about which I don't have a strong opinion one way or t'other!) so I'll shut up now...

From Anne H

Friday, 17 June 2011

When the signs first went up I thought they were intended as temporary - just for the duration of the 500th anniversary. And for the purpose of advertising what creative ways the town had found to celebrate something as old and traditional as a packhorse bridge, I thought they were a clever idea. I really liked the type face and I did find the 'so Hebden Bridge' one amusing initially (but only for the first half dozen times I saw it). I didn't like the other one - splitting the word 'creativity' in the middle just seemed odd, but that's probably just me. I think they reflected something about the town at the time - a snapshot of the old and new on the 500th anniversary. But they are not the kind of welcome to the town I'd expect to be a permanent feature. I'd be happier with a simple 'welcome to Hebden Bridge' and let the town speak for itself.

As for the alternative, quirky, funky argument, people do come here because of that image - not just tourists and commutors - it makes it a stimulating place to be and personally one of the reasons I like living here. But I think the mistake some people make is to forget that there are also a lot of people living here and visiting (probably the majority) who are not alternative, quirky or funky and some of those don't appreciate the whole town being labelled in this way

From Phil M

Friday, 17 June 2011

If people don't like it so much and find sooo much wrong with our little funky alternative town... why are you still here?

Em's view mirrors mine and I'm glad to say the majority of people I meet who live here agree! There's alot of energy put into making this place special in a great many ways, that's why we have a A3 double sided whats-on guide, none of the other towns you mention have this and this is predominently stuff for people who live here.

The people who come and visit the town to enjoy its scenery, history, shops, food, events and relaxation all contribute to the economy and allow the pubs to stay independent (mostly), the restaurants to offer food from many different parts of the world, the live music scene to stay buoyant and the shops to have an independent quirkyness.

If it's 'so Hebden Bridge' to constantly whinge and belittle the town then you are it. If its 'so Hebden Bridge' to love it for what it is and add to the alternative/ artistic makeup of a vibrant town then I'm in!! If a place has a buzz about it, it will get labelled, that's what people do, nowt wrong with it!!

From Andy M

Friday, 17 June 2011

I rather think that getting worked-up about things that don't matter very much is 'what's wrong with the town'!

From Mike Barrett

Friday, 17 June 2011

Hello again, well it was interesting to read all those lively contributions, confirming at least that we are not a sleepy little backwater of a place!
Just to set the record straight - I was not paid to think up the slogan - just for the layout of the signs. The signs were indeed funded as part of the 500 celebrations - along with the one at the station celebrating 140 years of rail travel. We had some positive coverage in the press at the time. I kind of expected a bit of controversy at the time but it is interesting that it has taken a year for this forum discussion to emerge. I understand the old signs proclaiming us to be a 'Town with great little shops' are still in storage somewhere so perhaps someone will campaign to have them restored.

Meanwhile - this has clearly become a discussion about the 'two cultures' in Hebden. Living in Bradford for twenty years taught me to appreciate a genuinely multicultural community and I'm convinced that Hebden could benefit from a bit more cultural diversity.

From Em F

Friday, 17 June 2011

Back onto the signs...

I think what Anne said made a lot of sense. I too initially thought the signs were temporary 500th anniversary signs... but then, if money and effort and resources have gone into making signs, it would seem wasteful to get rid of them after just a few months.

I prefer the current signs to the one about the shops because although we do have all those little shops, that is a much narrower definition/label than that Hebden is broadly... 'so Hebden'. 'So Hebden', in my mind, encompasses the Yorkshireness, the landscape, the history and the funkyness; the diverse mix that we have, the flavour of which I do agree could be improved by the addition of a few more ingredients...

Previously

HebWeb News: Hebden 500: Eye-catching signs go up at both ends of Hebden Bridge (May 2010)