Hebden Bridge Web Forum 2010: Clegg and Cameron

Clegg and Cameron

From Felicity Potter
Saturday, 8 May 2010

What does Nick Clegg think he's doing trying to help the Tories to power? That's the last time I vote Lib Dem on a national level. Labour Party, can we have a candidate it's possible to vote for next time, please? Thank you.

From Rev Tony Buglass
Sunday, 9 May 2010

Clegg's argument for going that way first is that Cameron got more votes than anyone else. That may be true, but more people voted against the Tories than voted for them. The principal argument against Labour seems to have been that folk don't like Gordon. We're not electing a President! If Nick goes with the Tories, he'll get it in the neck from his own party. If he goes with Labour, he'll get it in the neck from some of his own party. He's got a better chance with Labour than with the Tories, and we'd have a much better government.

Vince Cable for Chancellor?

From Gideon Foster
Monday, 10 May 2010

"More people voted against the Tories than voted for them." Surely then by the same measure an even greater number of people voted against Labour than voted for them.

Nick Clegg is doing what he considers the right thing by talking primarily to the party who got the largest number of seats.

With all the recent sleaze in politics then maybe such fairness should be commended?

As for Vince Cable, I have lost count of the number of conversations I have had with people over the last few years about how the army of amateur property developers and easy credit would end in tears. If he was the only MP who could see what a lot of ordinary people could see then it doesn't say a lot about the rest and the government in charge does it ?

From N Yorke
Monday, 10 May 2010

Can I strongly suggest you take a look at the previous discussion on this very subject.

"....the Labour Party is our rival, the Conservative Party is our enemy"

Nader Fekri made his views very clear at the time - he does not support the Tories in any manner. I am interested to know his and his colleagues current views.

From Andrew Hall
Monday, 10 May 2010

"....the Labour Party is our rival, the Conservative Party is our enemy"

Wow! I have to admit that I missed this near suicidal comment from Nader Fekri.

It encapsulates everything that Nick Clegg is trying to get away from. Nick Clegg is trying to escape from the utterly immature approach of the other parties where 'everything the other lot do is bad, and everything that we do is good'. For one of his would-be (and thankfully failed) MPs to make such a crass comment only serves to illustrate that such 'politicians' are far better placed in concerning themselves about litter bins, dog poo, parking regulations and other such local and ultimately inconsequential issues.

As Clegg himself says, we have an opportunity for real change, maybe the last chance for a generation. But such change must be based on conciliation and compromise, and not on confrontation. Nader Fekri - you and your ilk are the weakest link. Goodbye!

From Jacob G
Tuesday, 11 May 2010

You really must keep up Andrew. Wasn't it Nick Clegg that described allies of Cameron as 'nutters'? (A term for which he rightly, later apologised for). Didn't he also say that there was 'a gulf of values between myself and David Cameron'? Isn't he also now talking to Labour - trying to get the 'best deal'? Clegg is nothing but a sock-puppet, looking for a hand that fits in order to animate his slippery political position.

From Andrew Hall
Tuesday, 11 May 2010

Jacob, my concern is really based on a would-be politician using the word 'enemy' to describe a party whose principles differ slightly from his own.

I have read and re-read the three main parties' manifestos, and nowhere can I see anything to justify anyone calling any other party an 'enemy'. In fact sometimes, you have to check the front cover of each manifesto just to make sure you know who's it is. There's nothing radical there. In fact it's all pretty anodyne.

And just who is this 'enemy'? Is it one man, Cameron? Is it the (at the time of writing) the shadow cabinet? Is it paid up members of the Conservative Party? Is it the 10,683,787 members of the public who voted for the Conservatives?

If he has done nothing else, Clegg has made us all think about a more mature approach to politics, one in which concensus rather than confrontation is the keyword.

If politicians really had the welfare of the country at heart, and were prepared to put aside petty (and they really are petty - just read the manifestos!!) differences, why could we not have a Lab-Con pact or even a Lib-Lab-Con pact?

Whatever the case, something, as this election has lucidly proven, needs to be done. I suggest that using words such as 'enemy' divides rather than heals, and has no place in modern politics.

From S Lawson
Tuesday, 11 May 2010

Seeing the Tories and the Lib Dems on TV tonight I was reminded of the closing words of Orwell's 'Animal Farm': "....already it was impossible to say which was which."

From Susan Press
Tuesday, 11 May 2010

So there you have it. The Lib Dems exposed as Tories in disguise. We always knew that in the Labour Party. How will "socialist" Nader Frekri explain himself now? Is he going to defect? I know thousands who voted Lib dem out of disaffection will be profoundly disgusted. It is up to Labour locally and nationally to fight back. I promise we will

From Andrew Hall
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Quite, Sue, although like the word 'enemy' I'm not sure about your equally bellicose 'fight back'. Why all these references to hostility and antagonism?

The outcome of the election is actually pretty good for old Labour. It gives the party time to reflect, regroup and hopefully come up with something different, something radical and something positive.

The French have a phrase for it: "reculer pour mieux sauter" - step back a bit so as to be able to jump forward better. The current situation is not a problem for Labour, it's an opportunity.

From Tim M
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Iraq, ID cards, student fees, database state, academy schools - this is the Labour Party. I voted Lib Dem and I'm not disappointed that they may actually have some influence on policy. When such big hitters as Blunket and Reid come out to decry the 25% of us who voted for a genuinely progressive party, they put their true cards on the table. Let's hope they go away, lick their wounds and learn a few lessons.

From Sutti N
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

I really think this might be the best outcome Labour could have had. It's not the best the country could have had.

Labour have now got time to regroup, refresh and fight for the country. What a master stroke putting Clegg as deputy. The Tories have already started to fight on the inside and when they get the knives out Clegg is in the only job to save Cameron's skin. Do the Tories really want Clegg as PM?

I have voted Liberals for the last 20 odd years, but will find it difficult to vote that way again, a time to refresh and rethink.

From Andy M
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Did anyone else see our new MP on the local news last night? Something of the rabbit caught in the headlights look, babbling about change and saying most people in Calder Valley wanted a Tory government... errr no, they didn't. Do the maths!... but I'm sure we'll get another chance soon enough.

From Paul D
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

I also voted Lib Dem for the first and last time. Shame as the local party will take a decade to get over Clegg's decision, but I'm over it already. Given Clegg's choice it clearly makes every election from now on a two horse race. Vote Lib Dem and get Tories, or vote Labour and don't. Hmmm... so this is the new three party politics. Clearly his actual plan is to destroy the Lib Dems in the north and Scotland, ensure a two party system, keep the Greens away from parliament for ever, join the Conservative Party and then take a peerage in an unelected second chamber. Labour MPs must be trying very hard not to laugh. His own party members might be less amused.

From Graham Barker
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

It's worth welcoming the Cameron/Clegg alliance partly because it's new and different, but mainly because we need as much consensus as we can get given the economic mire we're in.

But unless the relationship works remarkably well, there's likely to be another election not far away. It'll come as soon as the Tories feel strong enough to ditch the LibDems and go it alone, and before Labour become re-electable. And in that next election, who will vote LibDem, and why? The LibDems could be looking at one good year, followed by oblivion and a return to an essentially two-party system.

If we're going to have electoral reform, we need it very quickly.

From Gideon Foster
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Andy, if you do the maths you will see that 60.6% of people who voted in the Calder Valley did not want a Tory government. However, 73% did not want Labour and ironically 74.8% did not want Liberal Democrat! The problem with spin is you end up going in circles back to where you started!

This leads us to the 32.7% of people who did not vote at all. Presumably they wanted no government whatsoever?

From Susan Press
Wednesday, 12 May 2010

Tim, can you please explain what is "genuinely progressive" exactly about an immediate £6billion, more in Govt cuts thanks to the Libservatives, a cap on no-EU immigration and no commitment to PR. Oh, yes, and the abandonment of any commitment to scrap tuition fees. Or scrap Trident

Can you also please explain how 10 days ago Nick Clegg was diametrically opposed to Cameron and now has abandoned any pretence at anything other than a burning desire to get his grubby little hands under the table in Number 10.

I utterly agree this was the best case scenario for Labour. It will also, in the long-term, be the death of the Liberal Democrats. The Lib Dems must be very proud to be in Government with the bunch who all voted for the Iraq war. Since you mentioned it, 180 or so Labour MPs were opposed. Thankfully, most of them now make up the Opposition. An Oposition which has five times as many MPs as the Orange Tories. We will return. Soon

From Tim M
Thursday, 13 May 2010

I'm not suggesting that all the government's policy's will be progressive - clearly many aren't. However, I struggle to understand what has been progressive about the outgoing administration - no electoral reform, ID cards, the desperate attempts to wriggle out of the European Court's ruling on the illegal DNA database, the Contact Point Database, the frightening attempts to monitor our email and web use, the use of National Insurance to increase tax, rather than than income tax, student tuition fees, SATS, School league tables, detention without trial, rendition, complicity in torture, Trident, centralising planning controls, big words but little action on climate change... hey the list goes on.

It's even the little things like the treatment of the Chagos Islanders. I won't deny that Labour ushered in important changes - Human Rights Act, (belated) Freedom of Information, civil partnerships. The test of course for the new government will be in whether the fine words translate into action, and whether the old guard really have changed. But I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's see if consensus politics can work in Britain.